Activity

Patrice Ohouo - November 11 VIEW RECORDING - 15 mins (No highlights): https://fathom.video/share/axPezMLPskee4nMmyMdjpXmCU_qs4uwP --- 0:00 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) I'm freezing today, I don't know if you guys have this cold snap, but it was like 20 degrees this morning, it was horrible. Hey, it was pretty good, it was pretty cold here too, as well. 0:10 - Eltahir I. Elbakri I guess that brief season we've playing against two hours. Yeah, no, we didn't get to the minus 20, you say? 0:19 - Patrice Ohouo (CleanSlate Centers) Not minus 20, just 20, but might as well be minus 20, right? It takes a little bit of getting used to, and then we're getting, you know, accustomed to it. 0:31 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) Yeah, and then as soon as you get used to the cold, it suddenly gets hot and humid again, and then it's just like, oh. Well, appreciate you guys kind of making some time to jump on and go over these. Thank you. Are you able to see my screen here? Yes, we can, yeah. Perfect, so we'll start by taking a look at the high-level methanol stock solution. The reason I picked this quote is because your other ones are blind QC, so they have a lot of the information. So I just kind of want to show you what one of our normal quotes look like before we move on to the blind quotes. So for the methanol stock mixture, if you wanted to order it, this would be your part number that you would put on your purchase order. You're going to get 10 vials, each of those vials of 5ml fill size. So that's our minimum order size and one pack is our minimum order quantity. So this would be your pricing per pack and then as well as your full extended total with dry ice shipping, handling, etc. So here we have your analyte table. So this is everything we're going to spike in. Our team took the data you gave us and we tried to reverse engineer your concentrations to what we believe was your internally made material. So definitely double check these and let us know if you want them changed. But this is what we think your concentrations were for what you guys were looking for. Being that this is in methanol, we do not have stability data to make a stability claim. So stability is NA on this doesn't necessarily mean it won't work. It just means we don't have. similar Thank Stability Data to, like, make an FDA, you know, product expiration claim. I see. So. 2:07 - Patrice Ohouo (CleanSlate Centers) I can quickly tell you, I'm not sure about the concentrations there, but I can quickly tell you what I have here. Okay. So, 2X Cal and the 1X, so 6-1 will be 2,000. Okay. 2:35 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) Yeah, that's what we got. That's you got. Okay. All right. 200, yeah. 2:42 - Patrice Ohouo (CleanSlate Centers) They're probably likely on, but definitely double check it if you want to move on. 2:45 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) They're on. They're on. Yeah. A couple of things to note. Because the product is in methanol, is not going to freeze. However, it should be stored in the freezer. So, product matrix is methanol. Yeah, product matrix is methanol, storage is negative 10 or below. This is going to be your packaging, so it just tells you like what kind of vials and all of that we're going to be using. And then expiration date on this product would be 18 months from the date of manufacture. And if you place the order, you'd be looking at about a 15 business daily time to receive that product. And a little bit of note, any customs orders over $25,000 will require a 20% deposit up front. Any questions on this quote before we go on to the others? No questions, Percy. 3:36 - Patrice Ohouo (CleanSlate Centers) I'll tell you if have any questions. 3:38 - Eltahir I. Elbakri No, no. Maybe when you share it with us, me and Dr. Rowe, what I wanted to understand is what these volumes mean to our process meaning here. So that's something I want And in here, the $25,000 is, when we buy this, Dr. Rowe, you think we don't need to buy any standards after that, right? If we start going in this direction. 4:19 - Patrice Ohouo (CleanSlate Centers) Yeah, so this is, it's interesting. think if your first question is, how long will this last us, right? The 10 times 5 mLs, right? 4:31 - Eltahir I. Elbakri And we can calculate that out. Yeah, something with me and Dr. Rowe, we need to work on it before we, But that's, I will understand it better than, yeah. Thank you. Yeah, and we have a lot of flexibility here. 4:42 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) If you guys want to change to, like, a 1 mL fill size, a 0.5 mL fill size, one 50 mL vial, you know, anything in that ring, like, you guys can pretty much choose, you know, how we package it. 50 mL is the minimum. Now, if you guys do find that you have, like, higher use, like, you guys might use, say, like, 200 mL of this. We would definitely want to update this quote, because the more volume you buy in one order, the better of a per mile price you can get. Does that make sense? That makes sense, yeah. 5:09 - Patrice Ohouo (CleanSlate Centers) And I think the next question that you had, Eltahir, is this is only for the NPS panel. This is not CDP or Duke panel. Oh, wow, I see. Yeah, yeah, So this is covering, Andrew, from perspective, this is only covering the newest panel that we are evaluating. We have two other panels for which we need to make mixes for. Perfect. 5:36 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) So yeah, this would be a 29 Analyte panel, but if you have other panels, I'm happy to quote those as well, if you want to take a look at the other two and having UTAK make those and see what they price out at. You just need to send me over the info and I can work those up as well. Okay, yeah. And then we'll start with the blind quotes. So this is why I kind of wanted to show you that one first, because here we're not telling you what we're putting into it. So the quote's kind of missing some of the information. Thank So this is going to be your blind samples, and I just quoted a couple of different volumes to show you guys how our pricing works, to give you an idea of that, like, hey, if I buy the minimum order versus, like, what if I use them for QCs or some things like that. So if you buy the minimum volume, 10 by 5 ml, one is the order size. So again, this is going to be three quotes. So there's three different levels for the blind. So just keep that in mind. You're looking at about $10,000 for that pack. However, if you buy 10 packs, it brings it down to about $1,000 per pack. So you can see kind of the difference between ordering one pack in total is like $9,800 and ordering 10 packs in total is like, you know, $10,800. So it's very little difference as you start to increase that volume. Does that kind of make sense? That's striking, though. 6:51 - Patrice Ohouo (CleanSlate Centers) The difference is, what is it, almost a little different? 6:54 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) A lot of it has to do with the fixed costs. So every time we manufacture, we've got to have a technician, you know, right? All of the paperwork, we've got to generate label templates, we've got to create UDI, we've got to do final batch review, so there's like a ton of fixed cost on our end that goes into it, and then there's the incremental cost of like extra urine, a little bit more of the drugs, those kinds of things. So the fixed costs are pretty high, and that's why those low volumes do end up being a little bit higher priced, but then that incremental, you know, as you kind of increase to use as QCs or higher volumes, it really becomes like a better, you know, per vial pricing. But you'll notice here, we no longer have that analyte table, so we're not telling you what's going to be in that blind sample three, so we've taken all of those drugs you've given us, we've split it into three levels, we've chosen concentrations within your concentration range, but we're not telling you what they are at this point. So if you order it blind, we send it to you basically just like this, so you get a product number and you don't know what's in it. You're going to run it, and then we're going to send you the IFU that tells you, you know, these were the drugs we put in it, and this was the concentration we put it in at. This one would be made in urine. Same as the methanol, it's going to be stored frozen, and you're going to have an 18-month expiration date from date of manufacture, and then same 15 business days after receipt of order. Next quote, very similar. So this is going to be your blind sample number two. We've got the two different quantities here, similar to how it works out pricing-wise as well, and then the third one. So, if you wanted to do the blind samples, would basically order all three of these quotes, so it would be the total of all three of these quotes. 8:33 - Patrice Ohouo (CleanSlate Centers) So, I'm a little bit taken by it. So, the cost per pack is drastically different, but the extended price is the same. 8:45 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) Essentially, like, my guess is usually when you see this, like, the drugs are not that expensive, at least for the amount of drugs we would use to make one versus ten, as well as the urine. So, it really is, like, those fixed costs that, you know. Make the low volume orders more expensive. Okay, I see, I see. Okay, yeah. There's a lot on our end regulatory wise and labor wise for any product we make, whether making one vial or 10,000 vials. So then it just becomes like that difference in the incremental volume of, you know, how much more you're in and how much more drugs. This is good. That's kind of it for the quotes. know, what, what are you guys thinking? Like, you know, does it seem like we're in a similar ballpark? Is it right away just like, you know, too expensive? Is it cheaper than you thought? 9:41 - Patrice Ohouo (CleanSlate Centers) Yeah. I'll tell you, you want to? I'll say is the lab manager. That is area of expertise, the cost and value added. My perspective is, is going to be a little bit skewed as per our initial conversation, but I'll say. Sure. 9:57 - Eltahir I. Elbakri No, but I, when I saw the price, I kind of. It struck me a little bit because we, I think maybe because we buy them in, we don't buy them all at the same time, right, Dr. Ohouo? We buy some and then we replenish as we use. This was new for us, the NPS, but when I calculated the whole amount of, I know this will reduce the amount of time we spend on preparing them, right? So that's the added, that's the value that we need to evaluate and see if the cost versus the time we spend on preparing them is worth it because definitely this is very high cost, but we do buy them in raw and then we prepare ourselves. When we buy them in raw, like a fraction of the price I sold, right? So, but definitely there is time spent in preparing those and there is also the, if it's not done by Dr. There is always the chance of re-preparing it, and his time is valuable for us as well. So, no, definitely let me think it, and me and Dr. Ohou will talk about the cost, and then see if there is definitely value, we'll reach back to you. But either way, we will reach back. I think, initially, my thought is, this is definitely a very high cost, but as I said, we buy raw from Cerulean and Cayman and then do our own prep here. Yes, we spend a lot of time doing it. It takes a good full day to do this, right? That's sometimes, yeah. So, yeah, we'll evaluate. This is my initial things. I want to evaluate it and see definitely if there is value, why not? Yeah. No, that's very fair. 11:54 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) You know, just keep in mind, we have a ton of flexibility. So, if you want to change from, like, the blind samples to look Looking at us making your QCs or something like that, know, something that has a higher volume, you do see how, you know, that small order for just a one-time-a-year proficiency test is pretty high, but if you're using 10-packs as QC, becomes much more reasonable. So you guys can take a look at your operations and kind of see, you know, is there a fit for us or not? Okay. 12:18 - Patrice Ohouo (CleanSlate Centers) So it's, and my evaluation is very much in line with Eltahir. I think it was a sticker shock when I saw those costs. And we are losing flexibility, meaning when Eltahir was saying we buy the vial raw, essentially we can use, for example, one vial to make, you know, one or two of our mixes, right? Okay. So we will be losing that flexibility going this route. And it's true that we spend time making these. Reagent. But again, we've trained personnel, it's faster. The time commitment is not as significant as when we train somebody new. So there may be value there. We have to do a little bit of legwork to pin it down, but I'll be honest, it's not jumping at me, as in better value than what we currently do. And I have to be honest. No, that's fair. And we really appreciate that feedback. 13:30 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) I do know we have a little bit of excess capacity in our manufacturing, usually around like the holidays, things kind of dip off orders-wise. If it would be kind of, you know, enough to seal the deal, I could probably negotiate around a 10% discount, maybe potentially up to 15% if you place the order kind of by the end of this month, just so we have, you know, can get that into our excess capacity. So just keep that in mind, too, as well. If, you know, a small difference could move that needle, we could probably negotiate that. Okay. 13:58 - Patrice Ohouo (CleanSlate Centers) Okay. Yeah. We'll do our... Not to be pessimistic, but more honest, I'll be surprised if we can be, you know, 10% will really make a difference here, but we can do the evaluation and we'll let you know. 14:21 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) Awesome. Well, I will send these over to you right after this call, and then I'll probably check in with you in a week or two. They make me follow up with you until you tell me yes or no for sure. So I'll just touch base with you every now and again until we've come to a decision. That makes sense. That makes sense. 14:35 - Eltahir I. Elbakri Don't worry. you so much. Yeah, really appreciate your time. 14:38 - Patrice Ohouo (CleanSlate Centers) You guys have a great day. 14:39 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) Try to stay warm over there. 14:40 - Eltahir I. Elbakri Yeah, you too. Thank you, Andrew. Appreciate you. Bye. 14:44 - Patrice Ohouo (CleanSlate Centers) Bye.