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Claire Collins - October 17 VIEW RECORDING - 29 mins (No highlights): https://fathom.video/share/bPiux_2PmEQCQKJmyEioz2BhSKU_hUyw --- 0:02 - Amanda McGee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) Hello! How are you doing today? I'm good, how are you? 0:06 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) I'm doing awesome, thank you. Happy for it to be a Friday, you know? Yes, it's always good when it's a Friday. 0:14 - Amanda McGee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) Do you have any fun plans this weekend? We might be going down to the beach. Nice! One last hurrah before it gets too cold. You guys are in South Carolina, is that right? 0:26 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) Yeah. 0:29 - Amanda McGee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) Do you guys get real winter there, too? 0:32 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) I mean, it gets kind of cold. I moved from Southern California to Missouri, and I'm adjusting to, like, it gets really cold in the winter. Yeah, I bet. 0:43 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) Yeah, I just ended a lengthy meeting, three-hour meeting, but ready to jump on this one. 0:51 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) Hopefully we'll keep this one a little shorter for you. No, it's good. 0:55 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) Yeah, we'll do brief introductions. My name is Andrew Lee, co-founder. Chief Scientific Officer for IMCS. I guess I've been around with the company. They kept me around from the beginning, so great for that. And I'll pass it on to Amanda McGee, our research scientist. Yeah, my name is Amanda. 1:16 - Amanda McGee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) I've been with IMCS for seven years, and I'm on the enzyme side with the glucuronidase and the sulfatase. Great. Well, I'm Andrew. 1:26 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) I've been at UTAK for about 11 years. I've done just about everything but make our product. So I've been our ISO management rep. I've worked in shipping, order processing. I'm now in business development. So I have a pretty well-rounded grasp as far as, you know, the industry, what our customers are looking for, and excited to be here just to explore and see if there's some opportunities. 1:48 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) Yeah, it looks like UTAK's been around for, what, since the 70s, right? 1970s? 1:53 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) Yeah, I think we just hit 52 years. Wow. We're second-generation, family-owned, so we're still... You know, a small family company. We're about 25 people. All of our products are made by hand in our manufacturing facility in California. So we're, you know, we have a much bigger appearance than what we actually are within the industry. Definitely, definitely. 2:15 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) I thought it would be much bigger. 25 and it's family owned. Okay. 2:22 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) We're very skilled at what we do and we keep our manufacturing team the way we run our operations. They pretty much are just at the bench all day making things and people bring them stuff. People take the stuff away. So we're able to do a high throughput with what we have. That's impressive. That is very impressive. 2:38 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) Yeah. We're a 45-person company. We've been around, you know, a little over, we're now closing in 13 years. But yeah, 45 and a big chunk of it is for R&D purposes. And there's three tracks of focus on products. But of the three different tracks, I think one of it Amanda's going to present is highly relevant, and that's kind of the discussion today. Awesome. 3:09 - Amanda McGee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) All right, Amanda, I Something you want start with? 3:11 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) Yeah, Amanda's prepared some slides to just kind of get us all synced up. So, Amanda? Yes. 3:22 - Amanda McGee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) Let me share that. Okay. All righty. So, we are the enzyme experts, and we specialize in the genetically modified glucuronidase. And so, what the glucuronidase does is it's used in drug testing, and during metabolism, our... Bodies will attach a glucuronic acid onto a drug for excretion out of the body in urine. So here's the glucuronic acid attached to oxymorphone. And so what the glucuronidase does is it will remove that glucuronic acid from the drug, and that makes it easier to see during drug testing. And so these are our two main product lines. Imexime is our first generation. That's the one that we started with over 10 years ago, and that one has 30-minute incubation at 55 degrees. Our Imexime RT is our next-generation product, and that one has been optimized for 15-minute incubation at room temperature. And so where I think our companies meet is here with the urine drug testing. So we have the enzyme and the buxone. And then you guys have the matrix controls and the drugs. And so this was two ideas that we were kind of brainstorming about how these two product lines can meet, and it could be IMCS and UTAK KITS. And the first idea we had would be more of an R&D and validation purposes for new customers. And that would be where they're testing things out, they're trying things, they might be comparing different enzyme products. And we want to emphasize the comparison in the drug-free urine and challenging urine samples because the matrix matters. And enzyme products aren't all equal, and if they're testing it in synthetic urine, they won't see the impact that has on hydrolysis in their real-life samples. And so all labs are different, so all of their panels might be different. And so... so... So the kits could be customizable, paste on what their panel is, or if they don't have any idea yet, then it could be pre-chosen into easy to hydrolyze or challenging to hydrolyze drugs. The second kit would be the QC kit, and that would be a one-stop shop to make their life easier. And this would be for established customers, where they can get their drug standards, their urine controls, the enzyme and buffer all in one place, and that would be for their routine testing. And then both kits could be customized based on the drugs and the matrix they want. 6:50 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) Looks like you have some great ideas already. 6:56 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) And this is sort of the last slide, right? Everything else is like technical. Data that we have. Yeah. All right. So, yeah, we can stop here for a second and then discuss. Did you have any other ideas as you were reaching out to us? Yeah. 7:10 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) So, I kind of go over our three main product lines, and then I'll dive into kind of the two ways we tend to work with industry partners like IMCS. So, our three product lines are the blank human matrices. So, whether you need a known drug negative or you're looking for a starting base to make your own in-house material, we have both real human and synthetic. Then we do our stock products. So, about 200 spiked analytes available, ready to ship today, like, off the shelf in a variety of matrices. And our custom controls, which you pick the analytes, you pick the concentrations, you get to pick your fill size, kind of the whole design. And then how we work with industry partners like you is typically a two-fold process. So, we're either supporting your internal R&D. That can be supplying you just blank matrix. You guys are making up your own materials. Calibrators in-house, or that could be us making, you know, controls, internal calibrators, pretty much any drug spiked into urine is kind of where we excel. So if you guys are doing any of that stuff in-house and would prefer to outsource it, that's kind of where we can step in. And then more on the customer-facing line, kind of in alignment with what you guys have here is we can put together kits for you. So we do validation kits for some vendors, but we'll put 20 lots of, you know, different lots of urine in a package, and then their customer can order it, and they've got, you know, a whole validation kit right there. Or we'll make controls specific to your method or your testing. So say you have, you know, a 10-analyte panel that you guys are doing, we can put all 10 of those drugs at your concentrations, and then you can pair it with your kits. Because it looks like you guys, in addition to kind of making the products, you also kind of sell the method. Is that what I understood right when I was looking at your website? 8:57 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) No, we don't provide, we have a suggestion. It's a hydrolysis method, but the methods are all really driven by the customer. They have to be the ones that validate it. 9:10 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) Gotcha. Because, yeah, we could do something like, you know, a hydrolysis QC where we put in, you know, the top five, the top 15, whatever it is you guys would like that you see your customers using. We could put all of that into, like, one. We could do them in individual QCs. That's where we really look for, like, a partner like you to kind of dictate, like, what your customers would be looking for. But within our capabilities, we can do over 120 drugs in a single sample. So, we have quite a, you know, versatility as far as what we can manufacture. 9:39 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) Yeah, that's great because we can't, I mean, I manufacture urine, but it's not controlled like you guys. And then I don't know how to fortify it other than just, you know, by hand pipetting by myself. And then to do that in a scale, and then also to have it certified as well as controlled. We just don't want to do that. That's not our bread and butter. 9:59 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) drive. I you. 10:00 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) So we like this potential, and, you know, just taking an existing kit and adding maybe some more glucuronidated targets, that would be pretty useful. 10:15 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) So when it comes to our product design, we're going to be looking for a couple of questions from you guys, and we'll just kind of run through the questions now, but I'll send you an email after this so you can take your time and kind of pour through them. So the first question is always, what matrix are we making these in? So it sounds like for you guys, everything's going to be urine. Is that right? 10:33 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) Yeah, drug-free human urine, yeah. 10:35 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) And then the next question is, do you prefer frozen or freeze-dried form? The difference is frozen, easier to use. You just thaw it, swirl, and it's ready to go. Freeze-dried, you do have to reconstitute. Frozen, you have a shorter shelf life, so typically it's 18 months from date of manufacturing, where lyophilized is usually 30 months. Both forms have the same 25-day thawter. Reconstituted Stability. So kind of figuring out whether you prefer shelf life and easier storage, because the lyophilized is also just refrigerated short storage, ships ambient. So a little bit easier from like a supply management, but a little bit more challenging from the user perspective, because they do have to reconstitute. Then next question would be fill size per vial. So how much material do you want in each vial? And then total number of vials. Our pricing is heavily in part due to volume. So we usually try to figure out like what one year's usage volume would be, and kind of target our order size at that in order to get the best possible pricing. And then just the last thing is the list of analytes you want and your target concentrations. And with glucuronide specifically, if could just call out whether you're giving us what you want to see as the free form after the glucuronide process has happened, or as the spiked form before you guys have done that. Okay. 11:58 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) Was that it? Yeah, it's pretty straightforward. 12:03 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) You know, from there, there are value adds, like we can do different label colors. We are in talks with some other vendors to do some white labeling, if you'd be interested in, you know, potentially using your logos and your labels versus UTAK. But in a lot of our industry partnership, they prefer to have that distinction that the product's coming from UTAK, just to have that further level of, like, separation from, you know, their instrument, their kits, those kinds of things. 12:29 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) I'm fine with the UTAK label. So, I was hoping that this could be co-promoted, rather than IMCS buying everything and then trying to promote just from the IMCS stance. But then, I assume, how involved is UTAK in the forensic toxicology and the clinical drug testing market space? I mean, I assume it's pretty heavy involved. 12:58 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) Yeah, that is a large. First chunk of our customers. We don't tend to promote the products that we make for other manufacturers because it's typically done more under like a confidentiality agreement and it's kind of, you know, we make it and what they do with it is up to them. I could talk to our team and see if they would have some interest, but there is some possible conflicts as we do make products for people that I think would be direct competitors for you as well. So, I would have to, you know, kind of take that off the food chain over here and see what appetite they have for a co-promotion. 13:34 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) You got some potential conflict of interest there. Okay. 13:39 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) Yeah, we try to stay neutral and then we treat everybody's designs as like completely proprietary. So, we're not going to tell you what we make for other people like directly, but we're also not going to tell anybody else like, hey, we're making this product for IMCS and here's what they're doing. You know, it's like, that's, that's your product and what information you want to share about it is really up to you. No, we're okay with that. We want. I to share. 14:02 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) I want people to know that we're collaborating and partnering with UTAK to make these life is easy, you know, standards or references. But, okay. Because I think one of the, I mean, the one in North Carolina, I mean, it's always a challenge, right? They have to buy all the individual Cerulean drug references. They have to buy the urine separately from UTAK and then add in all of those. And if they mess up, something goes wrong. But if this is all done in one shot, it makes it easy. Okay. Yeah, we'll fill out the questionnaire. And then I guess we'll send that back. It sounds like that's kind of the procedure. And then from there, we can figure out pricing. guess you're going to just hand over pricing based on the volume. And that, in terms of commercialization and usage, is going It'd be a bit difficult for us, because we haven't really thought about commercializing this. 15:07 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) Our minimum order size is just 50 ml per level, so it's a pretty small minimum order size. But like I said, pricing does vary quite considerably depending on volume, especially if you're getting up into liters of material. So feel free to ask for a couple of projections and say, hey, quote me at the minimum, quote me at 200 ml, quote me at a liter just so I can kind of see, you know, a small trial batch to try things out versus, hey, if we go commercialize, like, this is what we'd be looking at. Like, you know, we're more than happy to kind of work with you, or if there's a target price point you're trying to hit, share that information with us, and we can have our team review and see what we can do. Oh, okay. 15:49 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) Yeah, once you send over the questionnaire list, I think Amanda and I can go over it and fill it out, and then we can get some pricing tiers. What are you guys currently doing for your blank urine? 15:59 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) You said your main... Manufacturing that in-house? No, no. 16:02 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) Blank urine we buy from UTAK and mostly UTAK, right? Or do we buy from another? 16:11 - Amanda McGee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) Human urine we get from you guys, and we get a synthetic urine from, I think it's called DTI. 16:20 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) I don't know that I'm familiar with them, but if you wanted to try out our synthetic or anything like that, too, I'm happy to send samples. Okay. 16:29 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) I mean, our usage volumes are pretty small, and it's more internal R&D purposes for marketing our enzyme, or, yeah, our enzyme process. 16:38 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) Do you guys have, like, ongoing quality testing of your tips, or, like, how do you verify that those things are continuing to work right? 16:47 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) Those are all in the bio space, so not in the urine extraction, except for this one particular project. So we may be ordering, do you have any urine samples that are free of mycotoxins? I would say no. 17:04 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) All of our urine is just sourced from human donors, but our urine donors do work directly for us, so we have a bit more control than we do over our blood and serum where we're getting that from third-party labs. So, like, our urine is typically, like, pretty darn clean in comparison, from what I understand, to some of our competitors, but we don't do any kind of, like, filtration or stripping, so we're not removing anything that would be kind of, like, or, you know, we just do a mild filtration that takes out, like, the protein clots and those kinds of things, the sediment, but it doesn't strip any of, like, the, you know, the stuff that's normally found. I would like to donate my drug-free urine. You know, you might be surprised. I'm positive for alcohol, so I can't do it. 17:49 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) Yeah, like, I don't even qualify to be a donor here. 17:51 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) Like, if you saw the requirements, it's a pretty sad lifestyle to be able to be a donor. Oh, yeah. There's actually an interesting... 18:00 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) I all meant that I think Amanda prepared in the appendix, one of the technical details, and maybe you can help us with it, is that we do see a, and it's because human urine has other components in it, its behavior is very notably impactful on the enzyme performance. So like, in this chart, I don't want to speak on behalf of Amanda, so in this chart, Amanda can walk you through it. 18:34 - Amanda McGee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) Yes, so this is something we've been noticing, that urine will cause inhibition, and we all know urine is gross, that's just like the nature of the beast. So at 0% urine, where it's just enzyme and buffer in a neat solution doing its thing, the enzyme is at its happiest, and it's at 100% of its... And then as you increase the amount of urine, that activity decreases. And so we found that our enzyme is a lot more robust compared to others at that 20% urine in the reaction, which is about what our generic recommendations would be. It's retained half of its activity, whereas enzymes B and C have lost about 75% of their activity. And so this is just a controlled experiment using 4-mug and a SpectraMax, which is for fluorescent assays. But we've noticed this in real patient samples as well. So in this example, patient C, our product, is able to get complete hydrolysis within 20 microliters, whereas the other product takes 100 microliters. But then this other patient, D, both end... Zymes underperformed, and they didn't quite consume all of the glucuronides. So there's something in that patient D that prevented hydrolysis. 20:13 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) So you're kind of seeing variability like patient to patient within the same. Yeah, we do hear and kind of see that similarly. like right there is kind of where I start drifting towards like the, you know, the more of the validation kits we make where there could be multiple lots. And, you know, especially if there is a concern like this, you know, when we talk about manufacturing products, what we can do is add what we call it a matrix sample. So rather than us just making the product, we would first send you some of the matrix, have you test that matrix, make sure that it's performing, you know, as desired, not seeing any of these issues. If it is, you know, you reject it, then we find a new sample until we find one that works. And then you find one that works, you say, hey, it's good. And then we'll make the product in that lot. So the challenge. Well, actually, it's the reverse. 21:02 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) We want to find a problematic urine, like patient D and patient C. It actually highlights our product more over the competitor. So it sounds like it can be done. That exists too, yeah. 21:17 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) It's kind of the reverse of what we normally are doing here. Normally, we're trying to find the one that works, but if we're looking more for the outliers that don't, we could also, you know, a very similar process for that. 21:28 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) Yeah, so we're kind of curious why some of these patients or some of these samples behave differently. So that's the potential. So, yeah, definitely interesting. something that has stumped me in my tenure here. 21:40 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) Like, we'll have a customer, we'll make them a custom product, and they'll say, you know, oh, there's interference with the meth, and, like, it's not working on our test. And we'll send it to five other labs, and all the other labs tell us, no, it's great. We don't see any problem. But it's like, why is this one customer, you know, having this problem? I it's always hard to kind of crack that nut. 21:57 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) Their or their, yeah, their transitions are not accurate. it able to to Or they picked the wrong transitions too. But for this one, I think we can kind of screen which ones we want. And then the other question is, I guess, once you run out of that lot, then we'd have to repeat that, right? We'd have to repeat the screens and then identify which lot would behave the same way. Yeah, typically when we're making a product, we just look at it as like a single lot. 22:26 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) So we're going to pool together urine, we're going to get your approval. You know, you say it's a good, we're going to make that product, but we're not retaining like an inventory of that starting matrix. So the next time you want to order, it would be kind of repeating that process. Yeah. If that is a concern, we can take a look at, you know, committing to a larger volume and then us holding a portion of it for a period of time to then later manufacture with. 22:50 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) No, I think there's plenty of patient samples that actually do have this problem. So I'm sure we will run into it. I think even in the next slide, Amanda, you've. I already identified some of that. Yeah. I mean, across 19 samples that we've come across. And then even in the next slide. Oh. Nope. I thought there was a two-way chart with false negatives. But okay. All right. So there are possibilities in that manner. And then the approach really sounds like IMCS would pay, be the sponsor, and acquire the pre-made QC samples. And then we would take that and sell it or provide it to the customers to do these comparisons as we dictate. Okay. Yeah. 23:44 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) you know, an option that does exist is the potential for dropshipping as well, if you guys don't want to manage the inventory. But, yeah, you know, as we were kind of discussing, like, we'd be looking for you to more be the ones out there marketing it, selling it. But we could, you know, potentially work out where we. Physically retain the inventory, and you just submit the order, and we drop ship direct to your end users, or we can ship it in full to you, and you guys can, you know, send it out with your kits. So there's a lot of flexibility there as far as how we can work with our partners like you guys. Yeah. 24:16 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) Ultimately, we would have to eat the cost because the customers, they don't want to pay for anything. But okay. Yeah, hear that as well. I work with a company that makes those dip cups. 24:28 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) And then we make a control that they then sell along with the cups to their customers. So they can test, you know, a portion of the cups or a portion of the strips and those kinds of things. And it's a similar thing from them. They're like, our customers aren't going to pay for this, but it's like the value add of offering it, whereas the competitors don't. Yeah, nice. 24:48 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) No, I think, yeah, send us the questionnaire list, and then we'll review it, send it right back to you, and then go from there. And then I'll also wait for the price update. It sounds like you got different tiers of pricing. 25:02 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) Yeah, once we get it quoted, I'll send you guys out another link, and we'll just book a short connection, and then we can kind of review the quote together, look at the pricing, answer any questions, and then start working on dialing in the design if we're in the same ballpark. All right, sounds good. Awesome. Any other questions, anything I can do for you while you guys have to be? 25:24 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) Definitely still interested in a co-marketing, but it sounds like that's a pretty low possibility. But definitely, you know, a firm no would be assuring, and then I take no's really well. I mean, I've heard no's left and right, but I always ask. I'm more of a, I try to say yes. 25:44 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) So, like, what I can share is, you know, maybe not directly us marketing it, but if you guys are doing something and then willing to, you know, the UTAK brand, there is potential there for, like, some pricing discounts and things like that. Like, we work with a... A major column manufacturer, and we do a lot of the support for their R&D behind the scenes, but they're going to all of the trade shows, they're presenting posters, they're doing all of this, and like the trade-off is, you know, on the posters, they say, hey, we got this from UTAK. Oh, yeah, we'll do that. When they're, you know, presenting at the shows, they're like, oh, you know, we sourced this control from UTAK, and then, you know, here's how the control on our column, you know, performed in XYZ. So, there is, you know, definitely that interest in our end of collaborating. We just like to be careful about directly promoting products ourselves, because we do work, you know, behind the scenes with so many people. We just don't want to, you know, have that conflict of interest of, you know, picking a side, if you will. 26:44 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) You wouldn't be picking a side, because you wouldn't be selling our enzyme and buffer. You would only be selling UTAK with the fortified targets, and just posting it on your website, and then just letting us know, or... Not letting us know. That's another level of sort of the collaboration, is that you guys post this hydrolysis QC kit or reagent, lyophilized as well as frozen, and you're selling it. And then we can also buy it directly, or we can advise the customers to say, hey, we strongly recommend you buy it. Or we would go to the site and say, we're going to buy it for you, and this is the value add that we provide. Our competitors will probably do the same. I mean, if they're smart enough, they'll follow us and buy the same value add. So it would be you guys first, and you would actually have our list, and that's sort of specifically geared towards, you know, a broader spectrum of glucuronides rather than just morphine 3 beta-gluc, which hydrolyzes very easily. And we did find that in part of your kit. to Bye. Bye. Bye. With other targets. But if we swap a couple of those items out, I think we've got a sort of a standard reagent that you could use or just put on your website. 28:12 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) What I'll do is when we meet to review the quote, I'll bring our department director into that call as well. They'll kind of be able to better evaluate, you know, if it was my call, I'm always happy to do it. But, you know, it's more about convincing the people above me that, hey, this is this is the path we want to take. So I'll bring her into the conversation and then we can kind of pitch her and see how see how it goes. Yeah, that sounds good. Yeah. 28:38 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) Awesome. Awesome. 28:40 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) Well, really appreciate the chance to connect and learn a little bit more about you guys. And I'll follow up with that email here shortly and then we'll go from there. Yeah, just shoot it straight to Amanda and she will answer all the technical details around it. She's a scientist. 28:54 - Andrew Lee (Integrated Micro-Chromatography Systems) Sounds great. Thanks. 28:56 - Andrew Hartmann (UTAK Laboratories) Yeah, thank you. Thank you. You too. Bye. Bye.